[Freetel-codec2] OT: LPC-10 License help

[Richard Shaw]

I'm asking here as I think this group is the most familiar with the subject
matter and federal regulations...

The sox project bundles lpc-10 but it appears to have no clear licensing.
The method (algorithm?) seems to be covered by federal standards but I
don't know if that equates to any particular license.

Any pointers?

Thanks,
Richard

[Steve]

I don't know if anyone knows the answer. I think the driver was a project
called Satnet RFC 829 which had its DARPA beginnings in the early 70's. All
the code was federally funded academic research Fortran code.

At the rise of the Internet, some people started using f2c converters on
it, and there are various improvements of the C output in the wild. None of
these contain a license, as they are all based on federally funded research.

My favorite quote, who I don't remember the guys name, was:

"I wish there was a valid patent on it so that then maybe people would stop
using it."

73, Steve

[Steve]

An interesting document:

http://ee.stanford.edu/~gray/swim.pdf

Covers some history, and that Markel, Gray, and Wakita made the Fortran
code publically available (probably on ARPAnet). A previous page shows the
ARPAnet as a 4-node network in 1969! By 1973 the network was pretty neat,
and looks heavy in PDP-10 computers. They must have had a sale.

There's a snide remark about Bell Labs getting a patent in 1978.
Universities didn't have the patent departments they do now :-)

73, Steve

[ZPO]

LPC-10E is FS-1015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS-1015

I've spent many hours on STU-IIIs running LPC-10E and agree with Steve. If
we're very lucky, LPC-10E won't be used in anything new.

73-KY9K/Brian

Post by Steve
I don't know if anyone knows the answer. I think the driver was a project
called Satnet RFC 829 which had its DARPA beginnings in the early 70's. All
the code was federally funded academic research Fortran code.
At the rise of the Internet, some people started using f2c converters on
it, and there are various improvements of the C output in the wild. None of
these contain a license, as they are all based on federally funded research.
"I wish there was a valid patent on it so that then maybe people would
stop using it."
73, Steve
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[Mel Whitten]

LPC-10 was used in early DV programs like Hamdream, WinDRM, DRMDV and FDMDV. It's artifacts at low bit rates were so loud and "screeeeeeeeechie" that LPC-10 was never very popular.

Mel, K0PFX

----- Original Message -----
From: ZPO
To: freetel-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Freetel-codec2] OT: LPC-10 License help


LPC-10E is FS-1015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS-1015


I've spent many hours on STU-IIIs running LPC-10E and agree with Steve. If we're very lucky, LPC-10E won't be used in anything new.


73-KY9K/Brian


On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Steve <***@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know if anyone knows the answer. I think the driver was a project called Satnet RFC 829 which had its DARPA beginnings in the early 70's. All the code was federally funded academic research Fortran code.


At the rise of the Internet, some people started using f2c converters on it, and there are various improvements of the C output in the wild. None of these contain a license, as they are all based on federally funded research.


My favorite quote, who I don't remember the guys name, was:


"I wish there was a valid patent on it so that then maybe people would stop using it."


73, Steve

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- Richard K. Morgan
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[Richard Shaw]

Post by Mel Whitten
LPC-10 was used in early DV programs like Hamdream, WinDRM, DRMDV and
FDMDV. It's artifacts at low bit rates were so loud and "screeeeeeeeechie"
that LPC-10 was never very popular.

Yeah, the only reason I'm interested is that it comes with sox, but without
a clear license it can't be included on Fedora.

Considering it's purpose, I wonder if making a codec2 plugin for sox as a
replacement might be a better idea.

Richard

[Steve Underwood]

Post by Richard Shaw
I'm asking here as I think this group is the most familiar with the
subject matter and federal regulations...
The sox project bundles lpc-10 but it appears to have no clear
licensing. The method (algorithm?) seems to be covered by federal
standards but I don't know if that equates to any particular license.
Any pointers?
Thanks,
Richard

The last time I looked, the LPC10 in sox was buggy. Actually, the LPC10
in most open source software is buggy. The LPC10 code in spandsp works,
and it carries a clear statement on this topic:

* This code is based on the U.S. Department of Defense reference
* implementation of the LPC-10 2400 bps Voice Coder. They do not
* exert copyright claims on their code, and it may be freely used.

I think you'll find all the other LPC10 code out there is based on the
same original code, but they haven't all been careful about keeping
their file headers clear and accurate.

LPC10 is far too old to be encumbered by patents. Its only the
copyrights you need to worry about.

Regards,
Steve

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[Richard Shaw]

Post by Steve Underwood
LPC10 is far too old to be encumbered by patents. Its only the
copyrights you need to worry about.

Unfortunately, if software does not have a clear licence (separate issue
from patents), then it's considered non-free and cannot be included in
Fedora.

Plus, we've got a much better low bitrate voice encoder :)

Richard
KF5OIM

[Bruce Perens]

There is one exception. If the software, not the standard, is a direct
product of the United States Government, then it is in the public domain.

Post by Richard Shaw

Post by Steve Underwood
LPC10 is far too old to be encumbered by patents. Its only the
copyrights you need to worry about.

Unfortunately, if software does not have a clear licence (separate issue
from patents), then it's considered non-free and cannot be included in
Fedora.
Plus, we've got a much better low bitrate voice encoder :)
Richard
KF5OIM
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